Below: read a tanscript from a post-screening discussion hosted by Assembly House, Leeds in 2020.

Q. In the video there are some really low-brow references - the Prescot punch and the Supermarket Sweep scenes alongside academia and philosophy.

How intentional was that and what was your thinking behind it? 

AW: Well, the audience I have in mind isn’t necessarily academic or within the arts to be honest. So the points of reference need to be grounded somewhere which makes sense to ordinary people’s lives.

The academic content is there, and the pop-culture references sprinkle a little sugar on this heavier content. But there is also something deeper to it. Watching supermarket shopping unfold as a TV gameshow for example, which could point towards growing individualisation and wider political predicaments. As Stuart Hall says, it is really about the notion of ‘culture’ as a primary force in the ways we make sense of, and give meaning to the world around us.

The points of reference need to be grounded somewhere which makes sense to ordinary people’s lives

Q. What response has the video had from flat earthers?

Andrew Wilson: As far as I’m aware not too many who have seen it. I’ve certainly not pushed it to that particular audience. Yet at a recent cinema screening there was a young woman who came forward within the post-film discussion. What was interesting here was not necessarily her contribution to conversation but the reaction from the rest of the audience. I could very quickly sense the room becoming increasingly antagonistic towards her.

Alice Boulton-Breeze: When watching the Brexit scenes I found myself trying to decide if you were a Brexiter or not. But then I had to stop myself because that’s really not the point of the video. I feel that I’ve been trained somehow to immediately seek-out if people agree with me or not.

Lester Drake: There is an interesting ambiguity in the video with the questions repeatedly being asked to those two guys on the street. The implication was that they were flat earthers, but it was never really clear whether they were or not. The interviewer said that he uses the Socratic method of asking questions rather than postulating a position. This reminded me of a study which claimed that you can never change anybody’s mind via arguind as people tend to trench into their position. The best way is to ask questions and try to find common ground.

I feel that I’ve been trained to immediately seek-out if people agree with me or not.

Q. Why did you make the video and where did everything start?

AW: As an artist, a lot of my work has been intentionally collective, working alongside people with very different experience and opinion. Whether that’s working with Toby Lloyd on Broadcast Bartender where the event is less about sticking to your position as an individual and more about an experiment in convivial conversation. Likewise, with We Are Our Media where we have attempted to identify and articulate stories and experiences that otherwise would have gone unheard.

So, I saw the video, as a way to challenge and think about many of these things. A way to challenge what I’d been doing and the assumptions that were driving them.

The event becomes less about sticking to your position as an individual and more about an experiment in convivial conversation.

Q. What do you think attracts people to flat earth theory?

AW: Why are we drawn to all sorts of things? At the moment there are people in Liverpool and Birmingham smashing up 5G towers based on the idea that they are causing the spread of Covid-19.

At this point It might be worth pointing out that I’m no expert on any of this stuff. At each screening we open it up into a dialogue, a conversation. I’m very interested in what other people have to say, and hope the video can create a specific place for dialogue and discussion on these topics.

ABB: I have a massive distrust of our government for various reasons and I think a lot of people do. I feel like it’s comforting for many to think we’re getting lied to because it explains away a lot of bad things that happen in the world.

LD: I feel there is something to say about people not feeling nurtured, alienated, or without a place in society. In Behind the Curve the Netflix documentary which came out last year it seemed like flat earth theory was something that people could grab onto and cultivate friendships from. There is even a really nice bit where a physicist says we shouldn’t be making fun of nor alienating these people. Saying flat earthers are really passionate people who just want to do research but they have been left without the critical tools to apply that research in a more scientific or fundamental way.

I think this goes back to the idea of how individualism can create barriers around each of us, making us feel like we don’t have a stake in society.

AW: I agree. I think Behind the Curve tackled the issue of social isolation in all of this really well. Especially when it shows how a group of flat earthers disprove their own theories more than once yet refuse to see or believe their own results. To acknowledge their own science would possibly mean bigger isolation, this time from their new flat earth family as well as wider society. Which asks interesting questions regarding what myths we might want to hold onto in order to make life more confortable or more bearable?

There is something to say about people not feeling nurtured, alienated and without a place in society

Q. Why do flat earthers think NASA are lying to us?

AW: There are tons of videos out there. But it’s worth pointing out that not all flat earthers agree with each other. It’s not one big club with a strict set of rules that you have to abide by. So, I’d say go and investigate the footage and information for yourself.

But I would imagine there is a lot in what you said before Alice about the distrust of authority.

LD: I guess there is something about people who are more knowledgeable about science or economics who are immediately put into a position of power, and if you feel like your life isn’t as good as it can be or it’s being meddled with you will immediately question them because of their authority. I guess that’s the vital point in asking these kinds of questions, because it’s having an effect on our politics in major ways.

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